Comments on: Sporting Success and Economic Philosophy http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/ Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:08:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: This Is American Soccer, US Soccer, MNT, WNT, and MLS » Blog Archive » to spend or not to spend (bo knows) http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-13901 This Is American Soccer, US Soccer, MNT, WNT, and MLS » Blog Archive » to spend or not to spend (bo knows) Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:32:06 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-13901 [...] of many of the best players and criticisms of a boring league. Is it time to start the spending? David Keyes discusses the issue in the context of the latest buy-out of an English Premiership team. New [...] [...] of many of the best players and criticisms of a boring league. Is it time to start the spending? David Keyes discusses the issue in the context of the latest buy-out of an English Premiership team. New [...]

]]> By: Culture of Soccer » Blog Archive » What I’m Reading: April 28, 2007 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-378 Culture of Soccer » Blog Archive » What I’m Reading: April 28, 2007 Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:24:08 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-378 [...] manager Paul Jewell has a tortoise named Trotsky?), they are a long way off from the time when Bill Shankly easily espoused his football/economic philosophy based on socialist ideals. “Just take a look at the Premiership,” writes Ronay, “to find out [...] [...] manager Paul Jewell has a tortoise named Trotsky?), they are a long way off from the time when Bill Shankly easily espoused his football/economic philosophy based on socialist ideals. “Just take a look at the Premiership,” writes Ronay, “to find out [...]

]]> By: Keddy http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-60 Keddy Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:59:19 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-60 Ok, back to baseball, where it should be. Hicks is the owner of the Texas Rangers, aka the team that spent 252 million for Arod. Remember how well that worked out. Since they're in the same division as my Mariners, I've followed them for a while. They have done nothing for a long time w/Hicks & his money. I don't think the team has ever won a playoff series. In the little I know, I wouldn't trust Hicks & his money. Like everyone has said, it's a balance of having the money & managing it. The next question I think is key is this: What's the key to managing the money & the related chemistry of players? I think we could agree that some luck comes into play for success - injuries, career years, to name two. So, what makes a good GM (and owner - since they ultimately ok the spending or not)? Just off the top of my head, it seems that it's obviously good scouting & observation skills first. In addition to the more objective, there is the exact science of trusting one's gut. It's the feeling part. It's a guessing game with feelings, how fun. That's what comes to me first. I'd like it if you explore the financial stuff more in the future - esp. considering today's big drop in all the markets. Also, I liked the t-shirt a lot. I would put the individual rewards part first though & then the group part. Like the saying goes, a person can't help others unless they help themselves first. I like to define socialism to mean a form of capitalism that creates a real middle class (through sharing of the resources). Real meaning around 95% or more or so having a floor level of quality of life that most can agree is acceptable/wanted. Last, if anyone wants to see a great sports movie (it's a documentary w/lots of social issues mixed in), it's calld 'Heart of the Game' and it came out on dvd today. Sorry, not soccer, but check it out! It's basketball, the second best sport after baseball. Hey, David, maybe your next project could be making a soccer version of the documentary - like of that team in Georgia? You know people don't read the paper anymore, so you could bring the story to wider audience - people who watch soccer documentaries! HA! No, if you build it, they will come. Alright, enough of me. Later. Keep up the good work. Ok, back to baseball, where it should be. Hicks is the owner of the Texas Rangers, aka the team that spent 252 million for Arod. Remember how well that worked out. Since they’re in the same division as my Mariners, I’ve followed them for a while. They have done nothing for a long time w/Hicks & his money. I don’t think the team has ever won a playoff series. In the little I know, I wouldn’t trust Hicks & his money. Like everyone has said, it’s a balance of having the money & managing it.

The next question I think is key is this: What’s the key to managing the money & the related chemistry of players? I think we could agree that some luck comes into play for success – injuries, career years, to name two. So, what makes a good GM (and owner – since they ultimately ok the spending or not)? Just off the top of my head, it seems that it’s obviously good scouting & observation skills first. In addition to the more objective, there is the exact science of trusting one’s gut. It’s the feeling part. It’s a guessing game with feelings, how fun.

That’s what comes to me first. I’d like it if you explore the financial stuff more in the future – esp. considering today’s big drop in all the markets.

Also, I liked the t-shirt a lot. I would put the individual rewards part first though & then the group part. Like the saying goes, a person can’t help others unless they help themselves first. I like to define socialism to mean a form of capitalism that creates a real middle class (through sharing of the resources). Real meaning around 95% or more or so having a floor level of quality of life that most can agree is acceptable/wanted.

Last, if anyone wants to see a great sports movie (it’s a documentary w/lots of social issues mixed in), it’s calld ‘Heart of the Game’ and it came out on dvd today. Sorry, not soccer, but check it out! It’s basketball, the second best sport after baseball. Hey, David, maybe your next project could be making a soccer version of the documentary – like of that team in Georgia? You know people don’t read the paper anymore, so you could bring the story to wider audience – people who watch soccer documentaries! HA! No, if you build it, they will come. Alright, enough of me. Later. Keep up the good work.

]]> By: David http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-59 David Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:20:58 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-59 Susan - I absolutely agree that it's a shame that loyalty is only really notable by its absence today. Players like Ryan Giggs and Paolo Maldini who have stayed at their clubs for their entire career are so rare. That said, it's easier to be loyal when you start at Man U or AC Milan. A player at Worcester City would probably love to move to a bigger club; if he stays there, it's likely that he's simply not good enough to move up the hierarchy (though he might be loyal too). Susan – I absolutely agree that it’s a shame that loyalty is only really notable by its absence today. Players like Ryan Giggs and Paolo Maldini who have stayed at their clubs for their entire career are so rare. That said, it’s easier to be loyal when you start at Man U or AC Milan. A player at Worcester City would probably love to move to a bigger club; if he stays there, it’s likely that he’s simply not good enough to move up the hierarchy (though he might be loyal too).

]]> By: David http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-58 David Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:17:15 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-58 Jason - I agree that money is not a panacea, but I don't think there are many examples of teams having long-term success in the recent past who have not been wealthy. There are going to be counter examples of successful teams without much money, but soccer economics (especially the implementation of the Bosman Ruling which brought free agency to European soccer in 1996) means that the bigger clubs have such an advantage over "smaller" teams that their success is far more likely. Jason – I agree that money is not a panacea, but I don’t think there are many examples of teams having long-term success in the recent past who have not been wealthy. There are going to be counter examples of successful teams without much money, but soccer economics (especially the implementation of the Bosman Ruling which brought free agency to European soccer in 1996) means that the bigger clubs have such an advantage over “smaller” teams that their success is far more likely.

]]> By: Susan http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-57 Susan Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:50:04 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-57 Here in the US, fans have had to come to terms with this situation ever since the 1960's/70's? court case that permitted free agency in baseball. Players, just like people in other occupations, want to sell their services to the highest bidder. Aside from the self-perpetuating advantages that this creates for deeper-pocketed clubs, what bothers me is the lack of continuity in player personnel. It's harder to feel that kinship with a club when its roster changes so much from year to year. No one cares about this when you're talking about the personnel at an auto mfr. or Wal-mart, but it's unappetizing to me to have to accept it with a sports club. And the sense of tradition and fraternity among English football supporters is much stronger than it is here, so this is tougher for them. Jason is right that money isn't always the answer, but it' still a big part of the equation. Money can't buy loyalty like Bill Shankly's, but how do you create loyality like that? Excellent article, btw. Here in the US, fans have had to come to terms with this situation ever since the 1960′s/70′s? court case that permitted free agency in baseball. Players, just like people in other occupations, want to sell their services to the highest bidder. Aside from the self-perpetuating advantages that this creates for deeper-pocketed clubs, what bothers me is the lack of continuity in player personnel. It’s harder to feel that kinship with a club when its roster changes so much from year to year. No one cares about this when you’re talking about the personnel at an auto mfr. or Wal-mart, but it’s unappetizing to me to have to accept it with a sports club. And the sense of tradition and fraternity among English football supporters is much stronger than it is here, so this is tougher for them.
Jason is right that money isn’t always the answer, but it’ still a big part of the equation. Money can’t buy loyalty like Bill Shankly’s, but how do you create loyality like that?

Excellent article, btw.

]]> By: Jason Cronkhite http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-56 Jason Cronkhite Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:27:30 +0000 http://cultureofsoccer.com/2007/02/26/sporting-success-and-economic-philosophy/#comment-56 Very interesting background, especially the bit about money being tied to success of the teams. I've been wondering what has been happening with Liverpool - not a rabid fan sorry, more of a generalist when it comes to EPL. Is money the absolute answer though? I have seen loads of money spent on high-profile players that ultimately don't prove to be very good decisions in the long run for clubs. To add some perspective consider that maybe less money might create innovation, forced of course. Watch this keep in mind how innovation has been created for so many of the worlds best organizations. Also, how much money does the CBF have and look what Brazil has done on the World stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZqPumbDX_M I can understand your point about the history Liverpool has and the hesitation fans have welcoming American investors but, consider the potential without giving them a chance. Cheers, Jason Cronkhite http://zigazoga.typepad.com Very interesting background, especially the bit about money being tied to success of the teams. I’ve been wondering what has been happening with Liverpool – not a rabid fan sorry, more of a generalist when it comes to EPL.

Is money the absolute answer though? I have seen loads of money spent on high-profile players that ultimately don’t prove to be very good decisions in the long run for clubs.

To add some perspective consider that maybe less money might create innovation, forced of course. Watch this keep in mind how innovation has been created for so many of the worlds best organizations. Also, how much money does the CBF have and look what Brazil has done on the World stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZqPumbDX_M

I can understand your point about the history Liverpool has and the hesitation fans have welcoming American investors but, consider the potential without giving them a chance.

Cheers,

Jason Cronkhite
http://zigazoga.typepad.com

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